Hey, hey, hey, zip your pants back up. I’m not that drunk yet. 
Really, guys, I need your help. Well, more your input than your help. See, I’m one of those silly Romantic idealists who believes in the sanctity of marriage, and absolute monogamy, and prolonged celibacy between relationships, and all that sappy crap. My 31-year-old noggin’ still has dreams spinning around inside that show me getting married one day, to the most amazing guy who is as completely into me as I am into him, and pooping out a few kiddos, and sharing a gallon of bourbon-spiked prune juice as we motor on toward ancientdom.
Well, it DID have those dreams. Until recently.
(And let me interrupt myself to say that this is not one of those bullshit my-self-esteem’s-in-the-gutter-so-I’ll-whine-to-some-strangers-about-how-lonely-I-am posts. This is a serious ethical question I’m about to present. So, STFU and listen. 
)
My best friend and I were having a discussion the other day about heterosexual relationships, as we often do. The topic at hand was monogamy, and whether or not it was truly realistic to expect it of men. My initial reaction, of course, was, “DAMN STRAIGHT it is! If the guy I’m with feels the need to go poking around some other girl’s stinkhole, then obviously he has no idea what a gold mine he has in me and he can get his skanky ass right on out the door!” (Well, okay, maybe I didn’t use the word “stinkhole.”) But the more she spoke, the more I came to see that she might be right. Men, by nature, are wired to spread the seed, to fertilize vast and remote pastures, to, well, have unlimited spins at the “Wheel of Poon.” On a less biological and genetic diversity-driven level, most men would prefer to have multiple sexual partners as opposed to mating for life. On the conscious level, some would say that most men think with their other head. When posed with the question, “If it could be guaranteed that your significant other would never find out, would you be unfaithful?” the resounding answer is, “yes.” So, how realistic is it, my best friend pondered, to expect monogamy from men?
My inner Republican shrank away from this question, stunned and disheartened by the truth in what Mo had presented. But, but… most men get married, right?
Oh, and then there’s that.
I began to ask myself why it is that men propose marriage to the women they love? What do they want to get of the deal that’s worth stifling their internal need for “strange?” How realistic are they being with themselves when they promise to be faithful and true to one woman for the rest of their lives?
I know LOTS of men who have been unfaithful. I know plenty who make it a habit. Today I even heard one complain to his girlfriend that his fiancee was pissing him off with all the inane details of their wedding plans.
WTeverlovinF, y’all?
Don’t get me wrong, I know lots of women cheat, too. But when it comes down to it, most women genuinely WANT to spend the rest of their lives with one man. But, guys? Be honest. What drives you to pop the question? Is it pressure, or do you really, truly want that one woman, and only that one woman, to be with you till your time on this earth is done? When you say, “till death do us part,” do you MEAN it? And if so, what in God’s name would EVER make you think that it’s okay to go back on those words?
I’m starting to lose faith in the concept of marriage. I’m starting to think that not many men really, truly want to make a lifelong commitment to ANYONE, when the other option has so much biological pull. Let me hear from you, guys. I know lots of you are in amazing, beautiful marriages; you make me proud, guys. But I also know that many, many, many other guys aren’t so commitment minded.
So, let’s hear it. If it’s too personal, post anonymously. Your secrets are safe with me.
And of course, ladies, I want to hear from you, too.
Not a guy, and posted elsewhere, but…
hobbitt and I actually had some pillow talk about this journal entry when we went to bed. (As you can tell, I’m not sleeping, as per usual.)
I think you need to find new friends. And I don’t mean to say that you don’t have good friends, but if this is what your world looks like, you’re not in the world you want to be in.
Throughout my career I’ve worked mainly with men. On the whole, my experience of them has been vastly different from what you describe. Of course there were a few boys (well, I can only think of one to be quite honest) who couldn’t keep their pants on, but they were in a tiny minority, and usually a lot younger.
Sometimes I think monogamy has more to do with fulfillment than it does commitment. When I get what I need from my partner, there’s nothing more to be sought from {him, a partner, any man – pick one}. That’s not to say he can fulfill my every need – I still need my girlfriends, my sisters, and my own space, my own life.
hobbitt started proposing to me very early on in our relationship. I didn’t answer him for several months, except to smile. He would then say, “Well, we’re already married anyway, you know.” Tonight I asked him (again) what he meant by that. Tonight he said something to the effect that we were already beginning to move forward in our life together, and that he liked it. Now it’s true that he’s very much an in-the-present kind of guy, but he believed at the time that he would always feel that way. And so far, so good.
So, find new friends. Find people who reflect the kind of relationships and commitment that you want. Steep yourself in their company for a while and see if you don’t view the world a bit differently. It’s worth a shot.
BHD gives good advice. You should listen to her: She’s right on target.
I knew one man who cheated. And he tried to get me to cheat with him at a time when I was pretty vulnerable. (Honestly, I think it was only fear that held me back.) But I learned something in talking to him.
I asked him WHY he cheated. He said: Men don’t cheat because of the way they feel about their wives. Most men love their wives. Men cheat because there’s something about the way they feel about themselves when they deal in their marriage. Sometimes she makes him feel small about himself. Sometimes he does that without any help at all. But it has little to do with how he feels about marriage and everything to do with how he feels about his place in the world. A man who fundamentally likes himself doesn’t cheat.
It was an interesting lesson for me, and one tht I’ve applied to my own marriage: if I make it my job to help my husband see his own worth, I have half the battle won. Doesn’t for work for everyone. You can’t enforce inner peace on another person, and frankly it’s not your fault if you try and fail. But starting with a man who is comfortable with who he is (read: Not covering up his lack of esteem by crowing about all that is wonderful about himself) and helping to reinforce that message of his worth, is an important key to fidelity. For both of you.
He should do the same for you, BTW. It’s only fair.
There’s a lot of wisdom in what BHD says. Who we spend time with has a great influence on how we think and see the world.
As for the rest: I’ve never even been tempted to cheat on any of the women I’ve dated. Hell, if I’m so much as interested in a girl I’ll generally ignore other opportunities because it feels “disloyal” (that’s right, I worry about cheating on girls I *want* to date but haven’t even been out with yet – I am just that crazy sometimes).
People who cheat don’t do it because of genetics – that’s just pessimism talking. They do it because they’re immature, or because they’re not getting what they need from the relationships they’re in. It might be their fault they arent’ getting what they need, it might be the other person’s fault, or it might be both. And I’m not saying this justifies cheating – they still should have tried fixing the problem, or at least getting out of the commitment. But not many people cheat just for the sake of cheating, and fewer still just to get their genetic material out there.
We don’t go looking for things to covet, we cover what we don’t have.
Ahh, you’re just trying to see if we can formulate different responses on two different sites, aren’t you?
Okay, I’ll try.
There are many, many things that bother me about this outlook on relationships and men in general. I’ll start with this – I have been married for nearly 13 years and I have never been tempted to stray elsewhere. Not once. I couldn’t live with myself, and I couldn’t look my wife in the eye. Not necessarily for respect of the institution of marriage, or even for monogamy’s sake, but because I love and respect her more than any person or thing on this planet.
Yes, I still find other women attractive, and I can be a flirt at times (my wife knew this many years ago, well before the deal was sealed). But, as for going any further than that? It’s not going to happen.
I find it odd that anyone could say that men are incapable of overcoming their base, animal instincts. It’s insulting, yes. It’s also untrue. I can’t imagine the shitstorm of comments a man would get if they posted this kind of generalization directed at women. And rightly so. But, for whatever reason, the pendulum has swung far enough the other way in our society that it’s permissible to sling this kind of mud at men. It’s no more right to do so than it was at women not too long ago.
I think we’re ALL more evolved than that.
I just sort of happened upon this blog…but it hit pretty close to home, so I think I’ll respond.
Let me start by saying that: a) I’m a guy; b) I’m one of those silly romantic idealists that believes in monogomy, renewing your vows, porch swings and all that other happy horseshit; and c) I completely, 100% understand why guys cheat…oh yeah, and d) I’m in the bitter stage of being divorced.
I grew up completely opposed to infidelity. Partially because of my religious upbringing…partially because my dad cheated on my mom and I saw the devastation it causes. My mom was crushed by my father’s betrayal…so as a very young man I promised myself I would never, ever do that to someone I cared about.
At this point, you probably think this is a story about how I found myself in a tempting position and did what I thought I’d never do. It’s not. This is a story about finding myself in a very unhappy marriage…then finding myself in a tempting position…and still not cheating. I’m not looking for a pat on the back here, but towards the end of my marriage a very attractive co-worker cornered me one night and told me she’d had a crush on me for a long time. So what right? Happens all the time right? Not really…I can’t talk much about it because I want to protect the guilty here, but I work in the music industry and the co-worker was a fairly famous singer I’d been a fan of for over 10 years.
So factor that in. Seems like every couple these days at least jokes about their celebrity top 5. Well…my ex and I didn’t joke about things like that, but if we had…this singer would have been in mine. I got a shot at it…no…not a shot…it was laid before me on a silver platter. And I walked. Didn’t want to, but I walked.
When I crawled into bed that night with my ex I thought long and hard about something. The ex had turned sex into an awkward, Haley’s Comet sort of thing. We did it every couple of months or so, but only when I’d get to the point that I told her, “I’m about to lose my fucking mind if I don’t get laid.” I had tried romancing her…I had tried spending “quality time” with her (God knows how I enjoy the dog park)…I had tried just leaving her alone until she initiated. I had suggested books and counseling…I was hitting the gym 3 times a week – partially cause I like being in shape…but partially because I wanted her to want to see me naked. Nothing worked…only “I’m about to lose my fucking mind.” Then she’d sigh, strip down and do me with all the passion of the fucking Maytag repair man. Good stuff that monogamy.
There were, of course, plenty of other things that had gone south in the marriage…but that was the final straw. When I laid in our cold, sexless, friend-bed that night and realized that I was never going to have fulfilling sex at home again…and that I also couldn’t go get it anywhere else.
So I left. I packed my shit, moved out and moved on. I’m not a cheater…but now I’m a fucking divorced guy. Like I said…this is the bitter stage.
So here’s the deal…I’ve talked with tons of married and divorced guys about this very issue…and sexless marriage is an epidemic. Most married guys I’ve talked to would’ve left long ago if it weren’t for their kids. But since they have kids (we didn’t – thank God), they just cheat instead. Everyone wins right? The wives get the nice little stable, sexless life they want and the guy gets laid. Sucks, but that’s the dance.
So I know this isn’t PC, but ladies…guys just wanna get laid and be made to feel cool. Actually, feeling cool and wanted is a big deal. Don’t underestimate it. We may be dogs, but we’re puppy-dogs. Make us feel cool and sexy and we’ll walk on broken glass for you. But don’t wonder why your man strays if you’re not giving it up at home. Don’t wonder why he wants more if you put on 85 lbs and stop wearing makeup. You fuck us like little porn stars when we’re dating…then you treat that thing like a pot of gold once you land us. Well…the only one you’re in charge of is your own…and every other person walking the planet has one.
I didn’t cheat…but I wanted to. And I would’ve if things had gone on much longer. Flip side to all this is that I spent the last year fucking everything that wasn’t tied down. Turns out that’s not very satisfying either.
So why did I propose? That’s easy. I loved her. I still do. I meant my vows and tried to keep them. Sad fact is though, besides Jesus and your mama, there ain’t no such thing as unconditional love. Push me away long enough and I’ll go. Question is, why do women say yes to marriage when they really just want kids and a dinner companion?
I agree with the suggestion that you might want to align yourself with some new friends. I have been happily married for 12 1/2 years. I hate to sound crude, but my husband has always said that God gave men a right hand so that they didn’t have to cheat on their wives. HA!
There are so many things that could be said about the post from Apocalypto, from “getting laid” to “puting on 85 lbs and wearing no make-up”! BUT…I just won’t go there, it wouldn’t make a bit of difference to him or myself.
There are many fun/entertaining idiosyncrasies in life that you can only enjoy in the privacy or your own home with a SPOUSE!
I have to agree with some of the other men who have responded, that (were I the type to take offense at anything) then this question would have offended me. It comes down to generalizing half the human race as being nothing more than base animals, ruled completely by their instincts.
I believe in todays society (at least in the US) there is way too much goverened by instincts, but it isn’t from the mens side of the fence. But that is an entirely different discussion.
My first marriage was 10 years of misery and abuse. It took me several years after the divorce to realize that it was an emotionally abusive relationship that I had been in, and that I stayed in because of the kids and the vow I made.
I’m not remarried (4 1/2 years) very happily. But I didn’t get married either time for sex. Yes, I have a sex drive. Yes, I like to look at women. Yes, thoughts of sex come up all the time, and yes, at one time or another I have thought about at least half the women I’ve seen in a sexual context – some as little as a .32 second flash, some quite a bit more. And no, not always the most perfect and gorgeous ones either (though there are definitely a few women that do absolutely nothing at all for me, and the idea of the thought makes me shudder).
My wife and I are in our mid forties. Our sex life isn’t great (mostly due to some varying medications my wife is on, as well as some chronic back problems) but that doesn’t matter.
When it comes down to it, I remember something my cousin said to me when I was growing up (he was 30 years older than I am, so felt much more like an uncle). He asked me what the one thing a man needs a woman for was. Of course, being 15 at the time, I answered sex. He said no, you had a hand and could always take care of that yourself if needed. The one thing a man needs a woman for is warmth.
That always stuck with me, and the older I’ve gotten the more depth I’ve found in that one word.
So why did I propose (twice)? Warmth. When you understand that, you will understand a lot more about relationships.
I guess I should have made the disclaimer more clear: the above generalizations are not my exactly feelings in regard to men. They were part of a philosophical discussion my best friend and I were having. I thought I’d move the discussion here for a bit more perspective.
dogs give you unconditional love, too. just sayin.
i really enjoyed reading this entry and the comments, too. thanks.
i don’t know if there is such a thing and unconditional love between people, only because its not what I grew up with, nor have I seen in my relationships with most people.
men are sexual beings. they like sex. some women like sex a lot too.
but the main reason I have ever been attracted to anyone of the opposite sex is because they compliment my personality in some way. Like puzzle pieces that just fit together. And being adults, why can’t people just talk about sex with each other? if you are frustrated talk to me about it. Lets find a solution! shit…
there are a lot of good thoughts here. I can even see some truths in what apacolupto said. everyone’s experience is different. find yours. make it what YOU choose it to be.
Rebecca…nope…dogs are like people: they’ll take a lot of shit from you for a long time, but ultimately if you’re mean to them for long enough, they’ll bite you. (Disclaimer: I actually love dogs and have never been mean to one…I just have a feeling they’d turn on you after a while.)
You haven’t been around the right kinda dogs, then…
I actually think that may sum up my whole problem…
Tardparty,
I don’t think you are losing faith in the concept of marriage; I think you are wrestling with the morality of it. When you begin defining marriage, or even when you begin defining why it is wrong for a guy (or girl) to cheat then you must in turn define the purpose, function, and origin of the concept of marriage. You will not get very far before you realize that marriage points to something beyond itself. The reason guys (or girls) cheat on their wives/girlfriends is the same reason why guys (or girls) cheat on their taxes, steal, lie to their parents, commit murder, etc. It is an internal problem that is surfacing in destructive choices. That is, of course, if you believe that these choices are actually destructive anyways…which gets back to the morality of marriage issue in the first place. To say that guys (or girls) cheat because it is instinct or a natural function of their sex drives or a result of evolutionary forces pushing them to “sow their proverbial oats” is a convenient way of explaining why cheating happens in general……that is, until you are the one being cheated on!
Just wondering when someone’s gonna blow the dust off this old thing.
Wow. All that hullaballoo about “let’s name my blog!” and here it is gathering cyber-dust.
How very sad.
I’m sorry if generalizations offend people but they start with personal experiences. For examply the guys who take the time to respond here are not the ones with the experience of putting notches on their belt. Based on my experience it happens that opportunity and denial play a big part of decent guys straying. Not that they lie to their spouse so much as they justifiy it to themself. The joke that women use sex to get love and men use love to get sex wasn’t just pulled out of thin air. As to marriage I think women like to take care of others and men enjoy being taken care of – this generalization I guess becomes less and less true as women evolve but that was my experience. Am I bitter – no. Would I remarry – no. I think the promise to love someone til death do you part is in fact a lie; it might happen to come true but at the time it’s a lie. And who would want someone to stay if they didn’t love them just to keep a promise?